四位国外实验动画艺术家创作访谈录（之二）

陈海璐  华东师范大学设计学院

 访谈时间：  2016年，秋季

 记录，翻译：陈海璐

二，玛莎?瓦希尔可斯基（美）masha vasillkovsky

 一、相关学习背景

masha is a filmmaker and fine artist, who shares socio centric philosophy in her work. masha is forever grateful to jules engel, cornelius cole the iii for being her mentors at calarts from where she holds an mfa in experimental animation. presently masha is known for her animation in "rites of passage" (2015) dir. frederick marx,  "river of art" (2014) dir. charlene shih, a feature documentary screened on dec 2014 on the national tv of china, "lo azul del cielo" (2012) dir. juan uribe, 35mm paint on glass, "il doctor" (2005) dir. suzan pitt, "as you desire me" (2008) dir maureen selwood, "tell me cuba" (2006) dir. megan williams, "fur and feathers" personal work, 16mm, 2000. in 2012 together with her creative partner ruah edelstein, masha formed an amity of creative partnerships, called lumen animae, to share knowledge and inspiration with the community through film productions, workshops and theater. lumen animae have collaborated with los angeles museum of the holocaust where alongside with holocaust survivors and groups of students the amity produced animated documentaries based on stories of survival: ‘when man to man is a wolf’ (2015), ‘the story of three rings’ (2015), ‘tipping scales’ (2015). as an educator, masha has been using her unique methods of teaching for the last 15 years helping university level students illuminate their individual artistic brilliance.

       玛莎是一位电影人和画家。她分享以社会为中心的哲学内容在她的作品中。在三年的加州艺术学院mfa实验动画研究生学习记忆中，玛莎最喜欢朱尔斯?恩格尔、科力尼尔?斯科特两位老师。现在玛莎被人所了解的动画作品是《成人礼》（2015）导演弗雷德里克?马克思，《河流的艺术》（2014）导演查棱?施，一个由中国国家电视台上映的，在2014年12月上映的影院纪录式动画。《罗警察》2012导演琼?胡安?乌里韦，35毫米玻璃画，《教授2》（2005）导演苏珊?皮特，《当你渴望我》（2008）导演马瑞恩?塞尔伍德，《告诉我古巴》（2006）导演梅根?威廉斯，《鸟兽》（导演独立作品，16毫米，2000出品.在2012年与最有创作力的伙伴鲁阿?埃德尔斯坦合作），玛莎组建了一个富有创造性的合作团队，叫“流明灵魂”，在创作，工作营和剧场演出过程中与团队一起分享知识与灵感。此片已与洛杉矶大屠杀博物馆合作的，是根据幸存者的故事创作的，描写了一组学生和幸存者们合作的纪录式动画：“人对人是一只狼”（2015），“三个戒指的故事”（2015），“倾翻称”（2015）。作为一个教育者，玛莎已经运用他独特教学方法在过去的15年中，帮助大学生寻找并发挥出他们个人的艺术才华。

  二、您认为动画创作中影响最大的影片和人物是谁？

oh, there are many! all pebbles that the beach of experimental animation is composed of are brilliant. 

some are more brilliant (at the moment, as everyone’s time comes by virtue of their cosmic linage)

everyone is but a mirror of their maker; and same goes for their work. some of such masters are:

first my respects go to yuri norshtein and francesca yarbusova for ‘tale of tales’ and ‘hedgehog in the fog’ for the heart warmth of their work,

igor kovalyov, a powerful tree that grew out of russian avant guard animation tradition,

then the animators that he introduced to me: the most unusual storytellers, brilliant koji yamamura and a rare bright star atsushi wada,

this brings to mind unbelievable worlds of mirae mizue

i will continue this list as names come to mind:)

as the world does not lack brilliance, i cannot possibly name all the artists i love in two sentences as human art history is made of them. it makes sense to name those artists who’s world i was fortunate to come in close proximity with throughout my life. the works of mati klarwein, a 20th century spanish painter, communicated to me an incredibly precise messages, like rarely works of art do. i inhaled their air into my worldview. 

francisco ferrer, a founder of a humanistic education school in spain, based on the idea of a child directed education, formed a school in new jersy in 1915. my 17 year old child graduated from play mountain place, ferrer teachings based elementary school in la . that man through that place taught us a non violent educational model based on practical application of kindness and wisdom. as an adult i have experienced this kind of relationship (based on a teacher giving the students freedom and treating them as equals, as i came into calarts and was exposed to the way jules engel and corny cole, two geniuses, shared their wisdom with the students.

       哦，那非常多！其中实验动画的创作是最精彩的。（如今，每个人的有价值的时间都来自于自身宇宙排序）每个人都是镜子（镜像）的制造者，一些人是为他们的作品而来，其中有这样一些大师：我最尊重的是尤里?欧恩斯坦因和弗兰西斯卡?亚布索娃《故事中的故事》、《迷雾中的刺猬》两部发自于内心的作品。科瓦尤夫像是一棵生长于前苏联先锋派动画的有生命力的大树。是他介绍几位动画家给我：最不寻常的说故事的人，杰出的山村浩二和一个少有的天才人物，和田笃司，还让我想起难以置信的未来瑞江...我还在继续思索我的这张让我备受影响的大师表格......

       因为这个世界并不缺乏光彩和才华，我不可能用两句话来描述所有我喜欢的，作为人类艺术的历史创作者的艺术家。用几乎我的一生来走近认识这些艺术家的世界让我的人生变得有意义，麦悌 ?科拉维恩的作品，一个20世纪西班牙画家，他与我交流着一个不可思议珍贵的讯息，就像一件罕见的作品，我在我的世界观里吸收了这些新的气息。

       弗兰西斯卡?弗瑞，一个在西班牙的人类教育机构的创建者，以对一个孩子最直接的教育想法为基础。在1915年的新泽西建立了学校，我17岁的孩子毕业于玩山地?，弗瑞在洛杉矶教基础小学，在那里他传授给我们一个没有暴力的，善良和智慧的实用教育。作为一个?玩山地play mountain place 是位于美国加利福尼亚的一家教授学龄前后儿童艺术体验的教育培训机构。

       成年人我对这样的一种关系（一种建立在给予学生平等地对待和充分自由的这样的基础上的教育方式）曾有经验。就像当年我来到加州艺术学院，也受教于朱儿?安格尔和考尼?考尔两位天才教育家，他们与学生们分享着他们的智慧。

 三、您认为动画创作中，最重要的方面是什么？

to be the vessel of divine inspiration at service to the message, and have that message be delivered via the timeless spaceship of animation

       成为传递讯息的神圣灵感之船，通过永恒的动画“宇宙飞船”所传递的讯息。（灵感）

 四、您最满意的作品的创意灵感来自于哪里？

i ask a question of the space within myself,  what is the best possible way to resolve this or that?

then i wait … sometimes it takes time… for an answer.

       我问一些关于我自己内在“空间”的问题。有什么最好的，有可能的方法去解决这些或者那些问题？

       然后，我等待......有些时候，等待一个答案需要一些时间......

 五、您如何开展短片前期，中期，后期的创作的。

i look for a vision, once it arrives in a form of sketches, i think everything through and then i know what to do: then it is a matter of being efficient so that you get paid for what you can do in the period of time given

       我寻找一种看法，一旦它已达在一种粗略模样的时候，我想任何东西可以通过，然后我懂得该怎么去做：随后，是如何让事情变得更有效率，所以接下来你需要在一段时间里，对你所要做的给予行动。

六、对于创作而言，您觉得创作什么样的题材是会受到更多观众的喜爱的，你有这方面的诉求吗？

i go by my inner compass, trusting that if as human beings we are always interconnected with others through our thoughts and feelings and that every film has it’s audience, if it is sincere

       我按我存在于内心的罗盘行事，相信这样一点，如果作为人，我们总是可以通过我们的想法，感受与我们所愿意交流的人们进行互相沟通，作为任何一部电影都有它的观众，如果电影是真诚的话。

七、将来的短片创作目标是哪些？

i am completing a film at the moment, called ‘eyes of the azure’, i have a couple of pieces that need completion.

i want to draw soon, but now i am editing… i love editing and i will love to draw again very soon! may the mature projects complete so that we can start new ones!

       我正在完成一部电影名叫《蔚蓝的眼睛》，我有一些片段了，现在需要完成它们（连接起来）。

       我想尽快地画，但是现在我正在做剪辑......我喜欢剪辑，我还喜欢尽快再画一点！可以让成熟的部分更完整，这样我们就能再做新的电影了。

八、以您个人的看法如何看待实验动画的定义？在您的理解中，是否它对未来的动画发展是否具有特殊意义？您在作品中将如何贯彻和表现？

experimental is a key word. i draw a sense of secret pride that such a shifty word titles my mfa graduation diploma!

it means there are no rules, it is an art form determined by unlimitedness, guarded in it's anarchist's title

it presupposes that absolutely everyone is a genius, according to their birth right, by their divine make up; that said, we are all on the path of finding the pearls in our oyster, and some have found a bunch and others but a few... good thing the path never ends, there are chances of finding more every bit of the way!

animation can express the undefinable, which it helps us to imagine, feeding our aesthetical sense, which only takes in the nectar or it starves!

true art is a growing phenomenon, it cannot ever take a definitive form,  inhabiting only those art forms that can contain its transmutation into the new. viva experimental animation!

i want to do exactly this: perform with animation! have a theater and puppet performance supported by projection. the best genius of that type of an amalgamation, who comes to mind is the un-parallel william kentridge, his most recent solo exhibit, the refusal of time, in moma as well as his work with a brilliant handspring puppet company theater.

        实验是一个关键词，我感到自豪，用那么一个机制的词来命名我的mfa毕业文凭中的标题。

        它意味着没有规定，他是一种艺术模式被不限定的东西所决定，谨慎地使用在无政府主义主题下。

        可以预料的是每个人绝对都是天才。根据他们出生的权利，在他们外表下潜藏的。也就是说，我们是沉默寡言地在寻找珍宝的路上，一些人已经找到一堆，而另一些人找到一点点...好在是这条路不会有终点，有找到更多东西的机会存在。

        动画可以表达不确定的内容，它可以帮助我们运用想象，滋养我们审美知觉中，被蜂蜜（滋养），或者被饥饿（感受）包围。

        真正的艺术有着不断成长的气象，它不会存在于一个确定了的形式，就是那些能转变到新的艺术形式中去的新艺术形式。实验动画万岁！

        我确定想做：动画的表演！有一个剧场和有项目支持的木偶表演。最好的天才之作是形式的完美融合，他来自于不平行的想法。威廉?肯特里奇，他最近在moma当代美术馆展出的个展---“时间的拒绝”，就和在他参与创作的精彩的“掌上乾坤”木偶剧团剧场演出一样出色。

九、您是如何看待数码技术的发展对于实验动画的创作影响？

digital technology has been an incredible blessing to animators; imagination has easy-to-work-with tools to come to life and lots of people are streaming their inner worlds into animation now that the technical part of animation production lives in a laptop. i love all the areas it is now developing into such as the virtual reality world… or stereoscopic 3d… 360’ projection and other interactive ways to create a magical interface with human psyche.

       数字技术对于动画人而言已经有一个不可思议的眷顾，可以轻松地用一些工具用动画去表现想象和真实世界，包括人的内心世界。现在动画技术的制作存在在一个电脑笔记本里。我喜欢所有的，现今发展到的那种虚拟形式的世界...或者立体3d...360度项目，和其它能创造的，一个神奇的人类心灵界面的交互形式.

十、对于未来的实验动画艺术家，您有何建议和期许？

may your art be the vessel for delivering important messages from your maker! big hug!

       作为（动画）制作人，你们的艺术可以是一条为了去传递重要信息的船，拥抱你们！