【动态资讯】

四位国外实验动画艺术家创作访谈录(之一)

发表时间:2017-09-13 16:01:29    文章来源:    

四位国外实验动画艺术家创作访谈录(之一)

陈海璐  华东师范大学设计学院

 访谈时间:  2016年,秋季

 记录,翻译:陈海璐


一,乔治·格里芬 (美)George Griffin 访谈 


    一、相关学习背景

George Griffin grew up in Tennessee, served in the Army, and studied political science at Dartmouth, before arriving at New York City in 1967. He apprenticed in commercial animation studios, avidly absorbed influences from the experimental films of Robert Beer and the drawings of Saul Steinberg, and made his first film using a Bolex and beans in 1969. His work includes self-referential cartoons, abstract experiments with music, gallery installations, and flipbooks. He has made over 20 films, including Head, Viewmaster, Ko-Ko, A Little Routine (all available on the DVD, “Griffiti”); published “Frames,” an anthology of independent animators; written critical essays on animation; served on international animation festival ju ries; received a Guggenheim Fellowship; and also taught at Harvard, Parsons, and Pratt. In 2006 he completed a 10 minute cartoon, “It Pains Me to Say This,” and produced an animated documentary celebrating the centennial of the MacDowell Colony.

乔治·格里芬在美国田纳西长大,曾在军队服役,在于1967年抵纽约之前,曾在达特茅斯大学学习政治学。后来,在商业动画工作室做学徒,因受实验影像大师罗伯·特比尔和索尔斯坦·伯格的影响而如饥似渴地学习。在1969年,使用了莱卡摄像机拍摄了第一部电影。他的工作包括自我指涉动画1(self-referential cartoons)、音乐抽象动画、美术馆装置和手翻书。他创作超过了20部电影,包括《头》、《观赏大师》、《KoKo》、《一个小规矩》(所有作品收录在“Griffiti”光碟中);出版了动画专著《帧》的独立动画家选集;撰写动画评论文章;服务于Ju Ries国际动画电影节;获古根海姆2会员资格;曾在哈佛帕森斯·普拉特授课;2006年,完成了一部10分钟的动画《它让我痛苦地说了这些》,并为庆祝麦道威尔艺术家营地一百周年,制作了一部纪录式动画。

注释:

1.自我指涉动画:意为以自画像为主题所创作的动画,是实验动画主题中常见的一种类型。

2.古根海姆博物馆是索罗门·R·古根海姆(Solomon R.Guggenheim)基金会旗下所有博物馆的总称,它是世界上最著名的私人现代艺术博物馆之一,也是全球性的一家以连锁方式经营的艺术场馆。古根海姆基金会成立于1937年,是博物馆的后起之秀,发展到今天,古根海姆已是世界首屈一指的跨国文化投资集团。其中,最著名的古根海姆博物馆为美国纽约古根海姆博物馆和西班牙毕尔巴鄂古根海姆博物馆。(资料来自于百度百科)



    二、您认为动画创作中影响最大的影片和人物是谁?

This is hard to answer because I didn’t grow up looking at wonderful films and saying “this is what I want to do.” My first memory of a film is “The Wizard of Oz.” It terrified me, but I really liked the funny wizard behind the black curtain. I didn’t study art or film, but in college saw experimental films by Stan Brakhage, Harry Smith, Robert Breer, Stan Vanderbeek. Then, as I learned how to make cel animation cartoons as an apprentice I learned about the films that lay outside the conventional history of cartoon animation: Emile Cohl, Max Fleischer’s “Out of the Inkwell” films, and later the many films that came from Poland, e.g. Lenica, Borowczyk. John Hubley and George Dunning were also big influences. 

       这是一个很难回答的问题,因为在我的成长过程中,不只是看一部非常棒的电影,然后就说:“这就是我想做的。”我记忆中第一个有意思的电影是《绿野仙踪》,它吓到我了。但是我真的喜欢这个在黑色窗帘后面的滑稽的男巫。(其实)我没有学习什么艺术或电影,只是在大学看到的斯坦·布拉凯奇,海瑞·史密斯,罗伯特·比尔,斯坦·范德比创作的实验电影。随后,当我在做学徒时,学习到了动画传统历史之外的电影。如,伊美尔·卡尔、马克思·费雪的《墨水瓶人》,以及来自波兰的,例如兰尼卡·波洛奇科,约翰·胡博来,乔治·邓宁(他们的作品)都对我有很大的影响。


    三、您认为动画创作中,最重要的方面是什么?

1. Decide and understand how the work will be presented: film, installation, internet, interactive, live performance, etc.

2. Don’t think of it as “work.” Think of it as “play.”

3. Avoid default settings, automatic processes in the computer and in your brain

4,Think of animation as writing with pictures.

       麦道威尔艺术家营地:麦道威尔艺术家营地位于美国,辛哈布什尔,彼得伯勒。由麦瑞恩·麦道威尔在1907年建立,她是位画家,也是作家埃德沃德·麦道威尔的妻子,使用了捐助的资金建立了这个机构。在面临当时美国的二次大战,经济大萧条和其他挑战,她主持了这个机构将近25年。麦道威尔的任务是让艺术家在一个充满灵感的环境中,以个体最具天赋的创造力进行持久的具有想象力的创作。多年以来,有超过7700位艺术家入住,包括有79位普利策奖获得者,781位古根海姆奖金获得者,100位罗马奖获得者,30位美国图书奖获得者,26个托尼奖,24位麦克阿瑟奖,9位格莱美,8位奥斯卡,8位国家艺术奖章(美国)。殖民地接受成名或未成名的视觉艺术家,跨领域艺术家,电影人,作曲,剧作家,诗人,作家。(?夜恼虐嵩?956年获得过此艺术家营地奖金)资料来自于维基百科,笔者整理。

1,决定和理解艺术将如何表现:电影、装置、互联网、交互、现场表演等等。

2,不要去考虑如何“工作”,而是考虑如何“玩”。

3,避免错误的设置,电脑中的和你脑袋里的自动过程。

4,思考动画是用画面来进行写作。


    四、您最满意的作品的创意灵感来自于哪里?

I usually get inspiration from dreams, doodling, stories from my life, memories, self portraits, music (especially improvising), social political history.

I thought I had a “big idea” that the process of animation was similar to its form; it demonstrated the combination of art and machine, the 20th century and all that had come before. After seeing the pioneering work of Fleisher,Cohl (also see “In a Cartoon Studio”) I realized that my idea wasn’t so original. But that didn’t deter me. It led to showing hands doing drawing and flipping, using drawings in a machine-like loop, and more recently making interactive toys/machines for viewing animation.

       我经常从梦境,涂鸦,生活中的故事,记忆,自画像,音乐(尤其是即兴表演),社会政治历史中获得灵感。

       我想,我创作动画过程中的“灵感”,在形式上是非常相似的;它证明了艺术和机器的结合。在20世纪以及20世纪之前,在看到费歇尔·卡尔(看看《 在卡通工作室》)的先锋作品后,我意识到,我的想法不是很原创的。但是,这并没有阻止我(创作)。它使得我通过手绘和做手翻书来展示自己,通过使用机器循环机(muchine-like loop)进行手绘,然后,现在通过更多的交互玩具/机器的制作来观看动画。


     五、如何开展短片前期,中期,后期的创作的。

I begin with writing a few notes, then doing a simple storyboard, then layouts, and drawing, then scanning, then altering the scans with digital tools, then sequencing and compositing. The track either comes first or last, or inbetween. 

Sometimes I don’t follow any of the above plans. I just sketch a diagram and go from there, or play around with objects, like paper or food. I like to have a title first.

       我(的创作)开始会写一些笔记,然后画简单的故事版,然后是设计稿和绘画、然后是扫描,用数码工具修改扫描的内容,然后是编辑合成。这个流程可能是来自于第一个或是最后一个或中间的过程。有些时候,我不遵循上面任何步骤。我就画草图剧本,从这一步开始,或者围绕一个物件(开始)。比如,纸张或者食物,我喜欢一开始就有一个标题(题目)。 


   六、对于创作而言,您觉得创作什么样的题材是会受到更多观众的喜爱的,你有这方面的诉求吗?

The audience isn’t important unless the main purpose is to convey a message. Artists do make public expressions even if not many people see them. So, you don’t want to lose them, or insult them. You can confuse them a little, you can sing  a sad song, you can make them laugh. 

       观众并不重要,除非主要的目的是为了传达一个讯息。即使没有很多人看它(指作品),艺术家也会做一些公开性的表达。所以,你不希望失去他们,或者伤害他们。但你能迷惑他们,你可以唱一首悲伤的歌,(也可以)让他们开怀大笑。


   七、将来的短片创作目标是哪些?

I’m finishing a short film about racism in the USA. It’s more about history and memory, not about animation and art. I next plan to gather past experiments and try to tie up common threads and weave them into a kind of cycle, or series. I’ve been thinking that they would be like various voices arguing.

       我正在完成一部短片是关于美国的种族主义。它关系到更多的相关历史和记忆的东西,而并不是只关于动画和艺术。我下一个计划是收集过去的一些实验(素材),然后试着通过普通的线索,编制它们进入一种循环或一个系列。我已经在思考(短片创作),它们应该像是各种各样声音在争论的感觉。


    八、以您个人的看法如何看待实验动画的定义?在您的理解中,是否它对未来的动画发展是否具有特殊意义?您在作品中将如何贯彻和表现?

Experimentation occurs in art that interests me. Sometimes it doesn’t “work,” but you can learn from it. Sometimes accidents occur and you can use them. You play like a jazz musician.  

Animation created by an assembly line isn’t “experimental” even if it’s good. Sometimes the ideas, the writing, can be interesting.

I don’t think there is a genre or a technique which should be called “experimental.”Thus I dislike festival programs that separate film into such a category.  

Because animation can take a long time and require much precision and technique it needs to try to be free. This is a contradiction. The trick is to play with the contradiction. Sometimes this leads to explosions.

I try to start a film with a blank sheet and assume I can’t draw, that I have to make up new way to hold the pencil and make a line. Sometimes the pencil tears a hole in the sheet, and sometimes the sharp line becomes smudged, soft, blurry. I was recently drawing some sketchy ideas for a film with a water-based pen. The artwork got wet by accident. When the sheets dried out the sketches had become water-color paintings, and the paper was wrinkled. They had become interesting objects.

       在艺术中的实验让我感到有趣。有时它并不是“工作”。但是你能从中学习。有时,(制作过程中)意外的发生,你可以利用到它们,你的感觉就像是一个爵士音乐家(的即兴表演)。

       流水线的动画(制作)并不是“实验”,即使它是好的,有好的想法,好的写作,有意思的。

       我不认同哪些流派或者技术应该被称作为“实验”。因此,我不喜欢在目录中把电影分类的电影节项目。

       因为动画要用很长的时间和需要大量的技术和尝试,它又需要尽可能地自由。它们(的关系)是对立的,技巧就是如何平衡这个矛盾,有时它可以导致一个(创作灵感的)爆发。

       我试图做一个电影从空白的纸开始,假设自己不会画画,这样我不得不用一个新的方法去握笔画线条。有时,铅笔戳了一个洞在纸上,有时清晰的线条开始变得污秽、柔软、模糊、我最近用水彩笔为一个电影画一些草图。获得了意外的湿掉了的效果,当纸张干了,草图开始成像水彩画一样,纸张皱了起来,画面变得有趣了。


    九、您是如何看待数码技术的发展对于实验动画的创作影响?

As to #9 below, I use the computer to shift my 1976 film “Viewmaster” to a digital mutoscope which allows the viewer to crank forward and backward and stop on a frame to study the drawing. To do this I scanned the original drawings and re-sequenced them in After Effects to make a high definition film which could be played with the Quicktime Movie Player. The mechanical motion links to the digital animation by means of a rotary device and a small bit of code written by a teenager. All the “magic” is enclosed in a wooden box containing a small computer and screen. 

There are artists like Robert Breer and Juan Fontanive who have tranformed the ancient mutoscope into a delightful, contemporary art object. These are examples of “concrete animation.” You have to experience them in person as you would a painting, not as a reproduction or as media.

I makes work deceptively easier, allowing a single artist to do things now which were possible only before with expensive special effects. But because the processes are easy to repeat and re-do there can be much time wasted to “perfect” the work. Sometimes we may lose the original immediate stroke. That’s what I don’t like about 3D CGI design: it’s too “perfect.” Thankfully there are many highly accomplished digital artists, like Joshua Mosley, James Duesing, and David Lobser, who retain an experimental, personal vision and also expand animation art .

       关于第九个问题,我使用了电脑转换我1976年的动画短片“视觉大观”(作品)为数码电影放映机,它允许观众使用手柄控制向前或向后或者停止来学习绘画。做这些,我扫描了原来的画,并在AE里重新排序去制作一个能用Quicktime进行播放的高度清晰度电影。这个机械运动通过旋转装置和一个十几岁少年编写代码来连接数字动画。所有的“魔法”都包含在一个拥有小型计算机和屏幕的木箱里。

       像罗伯特·比尔1和胡安·方塔奈夫2‚将古老的电影放映机转化成愉快的当代艺术的主题。这是一个“具体的动画”的例子,当你要画的时候,必须亲生体验它们,而不是去复制或者作为简单的媒介。

       我让工作变得似乎异常简单,只允许一个独立艺术家来做,现在有可能在一个昂贵的影片特殊效果制作之前(才能做到)。但是因为制作过程很容易重复再重复,所以,很多时间是浪费在达到“完美”的作品上。有时我们可能丢失了原创的立竿见影的尝试。那是我不喜欢3D CGI 的设计的原因,因为它们太“完美”了,感谢很多高水平的数码艺术家,像约书亚·莫斯利,杰姆斯·帝辛,和大卫·萝卜丝,他们保持了实验,个人的风格,并衍生了动画艺术。

注释:

1.罗伯特·比尔 Robert Breer 美国实验动画大师

2.胡安·方塔奈夫Juan Fontanive 美国先锋动画艺术家 


  

 十、对于未来的实验动画艺术家,您有何建议和期许?

Don’t be afraid or bored of:

machines, even flipbooks.

jerky, sloppy, amateurish, obscure, childish, dirty, silent (etc) animation.

having fun.

       对于机器的、手翻书的、生涩的、草率的、业余的、模糊的、幼稚的、肮脏的、默片的(这些手法,媒介,形式等)不要感到害怕或者觉得无聊 。 要玩得开心!